Hi,

A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?

The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 1:41:51 PM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?
>
> The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

It'd be less expensive and more productive to sell the PF Core (coincidentally I may need one) and build an OGN station. Believe the cost of the Raspberry Pi and all the bits is about $250. Then the customer's computer and everyone else's can display that OGN station.
A good start, the link below.
Jim

http://wiki.glidernet.org/

On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 1:41:51 PM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?
>
> The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

Paul, I think Rex and Noelle at Williams Soaring Center just got something like this up and running to keep track of the fleet in the air in real time.. Ask them.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Thanks. I just sent an email to Rex and Noelle.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-5, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 1:41:51 PM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?
> >
> > The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> Paul, I think Rex and Noelle at Williams Soaring Center just got something like this up and running to keep track of the fleet in the air in real time. Ask them.
>
> Matt

Moriarty, NM (0E0) has installed several FlightAware and OGN receivers around the Estancia Valley and other locations in New Mexico. The do an admirable job of providing tracking for Flarm and/or ADS-B/Transponder equipped aircraft. Monitoring is easy via the Internet, and is available for viewing in the Moriarty Airport Terminal on a dedicated 42 inch monitor. Most of the installations were funded by individual pilots interested in promoting the use of this inexpensive and highly useful technology.

On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-6, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?
>
> The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

XCSoar will do that. There's a Windows version as well as a Linux version that both work on the desktop. Free.

The OGN station setups ( http://wiki.glidernet.org/ ) also work and can serve the community as well. But I'd say they are a little challenging to set up for the uninitiated. Easier than it was a few years ago. But still Linux, with all the good and bad.

Hi Dave,

I installed XCSoar on my PC along with airport, airspace and map files. It was pretty easy to do. It does an OK job of displaying the nearby ADS-B and FLARM traffic. It doesn't seem to display much traffic information on the moving map screen. It shows more information in the FLARM Radar view, but that view doesn't show the map.

I think it will be OK for the customer, but for our soaring club I'd prefer something that displays more information about traffic on the moving map - as my Oudie and LX9000 do. Does anyone have any suggestions? Perhaps an Oudie is the best solution for our soaring club flight monitor.

Thanks,

Paul Remde
_____________________________________

On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 8:59:51 PM UTC-5, Dave Leonard wrote:
> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-6, Paul Remde wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?
> >
> > The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> XCSoar will do that. There's a Windows version as well as a Linux version that both work on the desktop. Free.
>
> The OGN station setups ( http://wiki.glidernet.org/ ) also work and can serve the community as well. But I'd say they are a little challenging to set up for the uninitiated. Easier than it was a few years ago. But still Linux, with all the good and bad.

At least on my Dell Streak the flarm and ADSB (but not PCAS) targets are showing in the moving map as tiny small blue arrows. There may be a setting to enable this, don’t recall of the top of my head. Also I believe there is no buffer time so they come and go quickly as the reception fluctuates.

Ramy

Hi Ramy,

Thanks. I'm seeing ADS-B targets as blue triangles on the map, but I can only see range, relative altitude and vario reading when I go to the FLARM Radar screen - which doesn't have a map background.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
_________________________

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 9:11:30 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
> At least on my Dell Streak the flarm and ADSB (but not PCAS) targets are showing in the moving map as tiny small blue arrows. There may be a setting to enable this, don’t recall of the top of my head. Also I believe there is no buffer time so they come and go quickly as the reception fluctuates.
>
> Ramy

Config >> Config >> File Manager >> Add & look for data.fln &
ogn-device-database.fln, just below the.xcm map files. data.fln gives you
those registered on Flarmnet & the ogn file those registered on the Open
Glider Network.

A proper OGN receiver would be the way to go, you will get much better
reception range.

Edward

At 02:16 14 March 2019, Paul Remde wrote:
>Hi Ramy,
>
>Thanks. I'm seeing ADS-B targets as blue triangles on the map, but I can
>on=
>ly see range, relative altitude and vario reading when I go to the FLARM
>Ra=
>dar screen - which doesn't have a map background.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Paul Remde
>_________________________
>
>On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 9:11:30 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
>> At least on my Dell Streak the flarm and ADSB (but not PCAS) targets
are
>=
>showing in the moving map as tiny small blue arrows. There may be a
>setting=
> to enable this, don=E2=80=99t recall of the top of my head. Also I
>believ=
>e there is no buffer time so they come and go quickly as the reception
>fluc=
>tuates.=20
>>=20
>> Ramy
>
>

Hi Paul,

When the Flarm display screen in XCSoar, simply tap on the target in
question and you'll get full information.Â* This is IIRC...

Dan

On 3/13/2019 8:16 PM, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Ramy,
>
> Thanks. I'm seeing ADS-B targets as blue triangles on the map, but I can only see range, relative altitude and vario reading when I go to the FLARM Radar screen - which doesn't have a map background.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> _________________________
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 9:11:30 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
>> At least on my Dell Streak the flarm and ADSB (but not PCAS) targets are showing in the moving map as tiny small blue arrows. There may be a setting to enable this, don’t recall of the top of my head. Also I believe there is no buffer time so they come and go quickly as the reception fluctuates.
>>
>> Ramy

--
Dan, 5J

Hi,

The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.

Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative. However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
_____________________________________
On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 3:41:51 PM UTC-5, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?
>
> The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:

> The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
> customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
> positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.
>
> Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
> been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.
>
OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
range of the network of receivers.

Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.

> However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
> required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?
>
AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
ground stations in receive-only mode.

OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
typically 30km or so.

Go here: http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).

There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.

BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.


On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:
>
> > The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
> > customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
> > positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.
> >
> > Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
> > been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.
> >
> OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
> running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
> the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
> connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
> range of the network of receivers.
>
> Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
> similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
> set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
> stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
> FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.
>
> > However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
> > required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?
> >
> AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
> ground stations in receive-only mode.
>
> OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
> an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
> antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
> typically 30km or so.
>
> Go here: http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
> to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
> NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).
>
> There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.
>
> BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:
> >
> > > The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
> > > customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
> > > positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.
> > >
> > > Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
> > > been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.
> > >
> > OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
> > running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
> > the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
> > connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
> > range of the network of receivers.
> >
> > Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
> > similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
> > set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
> > stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
> > FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.
> >
> > > However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
> > > required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?
> > >
> > AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
> > ground stations in receive-only mode.
> >
> > OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
> > an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
> > antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
> > typically 30km or so.
> >
> > Go here: http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
> > to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
> > NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Martin | martin at
> > Gregorie | gregorie dot org

PilotAware? https://pilotaware.com/

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 7:18:46 PM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:
>
> PilotAware? https://pilotaware.com/

That makes much more sense. Thanks.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 19:18:43 -0700, Tom BravoMike wrote:

>
> PilotAware? https://pilotaware.com/
>
Good catch - I only know about PilotAware from a single article in S&G.
I remembered the name ended in ---Aware but, predictably, got the first
part wrong. I also now know that the ground station lets GA pilots see
FLARM aircraft, but not the other way round.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 9:52:22 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).
>
> There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.
>
> BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:
> >
> > > The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
> > > customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
> > > positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.
> > >
> > > Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
> > > been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.
> > >
> > OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
> > running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
> > the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
> > connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
> > range of the network of receivers.
> >
> > Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
> > similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
> > set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
> > stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
> > FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.
> >
> > > However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
> > > required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?
> > >
> > AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
> > ground stations in receive-only mode.
> >
> > OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
> > an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
> > antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
> > typically 30km or so.
> >
> > Go here: http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
> > to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
> > NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Martin | martin at
> > Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Aren't there also low-cost "OGN Trackers" (mostly in gliders in Europe?) which transmit signals that ground stations collect and contribute to the OGN servers?

Also, in the USA currently, there is the option of using goTenna devices along with the GliderLink app. That's designed for peer-to-peer location awareness, but ground stations using goTenna devices could be set up, and they too could send data to OGN.

BTW all of these (other than ADS-B Out transmitters), AFAIK, transmit on frequencies (and at low powers) that do not require a license.

Another option is the use of the cellphone network to send gliders' positions to a server. Currently that's done by some via the IGCdroid app which sends the data to Glideport.aero. Either the app itself, or glideport.aero, could also be forwarding the data to OGN. This method does not require any hardware in the glider, other than smartphones which most of us carry anyway.

In my note above I was talking about OGN Trackers. They are low-power transmitters that go in sailplanes. They are a lower-cost alternative to a PowerFLARM or ADS-B Out. Some examples are shown here:
http://wiki.glidernet.org/ogn-tracker
PowerFLARM transmitters need F.C.C. approval in the USA, I would think OGN Trackers would also need F.C.C. approval. But I'm not an expert on such things.

Best Regards,
Paul Remde

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 10:20:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 9:52:22 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).
> >
> > There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.
> >
> > BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:
> > >
> > > > The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
> > > > customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
> > > > positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.
> > > >
> > > > Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
> > > > been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.
> > > >
> > > OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
> > > running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
> > > the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
> > > connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
> > > range of the network of receivers.
> > >
> > > Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
> > > similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
> > > set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
> > > stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
> > > FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.
> > >
> > > > However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
> > > > required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?
> > > >
> > > AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
> > > ground stations in receive-only mode.
> > >
> > > OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
> > > an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
> > > antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
> > > typically 30km or so.
> > >
> > > Go here: http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
> > > to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
> > > NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Martin | martin at
> > > Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>
> Aren't there also low-cost "OGN Trackers" (mostly in gliders in Europe?) which transmit signals that ground stations collect and contribute to the OGN servers?
>
> Also, in the USA currently, there is the option of using goTenna devices along with the GliderLink app. That's designed for peer-to-peer location awareness, but ground stations using goTenna devices could be set up, and they too could send data to OGN.
>
> BTW all of these (other than ADS-B Out transmitters), AFAIK, transmit on frequencies (and at low powers) that do not require a license.

On Friday, March 15, 2019 at 12:11:48 AM UTC-4, Paul Remde wrote:
> In my note above I was talking about OGN Trackers. They are low-power transmitters that go in sailplanes. They are a lower-cost alternative to a PowerFLARM or ADS-B Out. Some examples are shown here:
> http://wiki.glidernet.org/ogn-tracker
> PowerFLARM transmitters need F.C.C. approval in the USA, I would think OGN Trackers would also need F.C.C. approval. But I'm not an expert on such things.
>
> Best Regards,
> Paul Remde
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 10:20:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 9:52:22 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > > Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).
> > >
> > > There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.
> > >
> > > BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
> > > > > customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
> > > > > positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
> > > > > been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.
> > > > >
> > > > OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
> > > > running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
> > > > the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
> > > > connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
> > > > range of the network of receivers.
> > > >
> > > > Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
> > > > similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
> > > > set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
> > > > stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
> > > > FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.
> > > >
> > > > > However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
> > > > > required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?
> > > > >
> > > > AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
> > > > ground stations in receive-only mode.
> > > >
> > > > OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
> > > > an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
> > > > antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
> > > > typically 30km or so.
> > > >
> > > > Go here: http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
> > > > to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
> > > > NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Martin | martin at
> > > > Gregorie | gregorie dot org
> >
> > Aren't there also low-cost "OGN Trackers" (mostly in gliders in Europe?) which transmit signals that ground stations collect and contribute to the OGN servers?
> >
> > Also, in the USA currently, there is the option of using goTenna devices along with the GliderLink app. That's designed for peer-to-peer location awareness, but ground stations using goTenna devices could be set up, and they too could send data to OGN.
> >
> > BTW all of these (other than ADS-B Out transmitters), AFAIK, transmit on frequencies (and at low powers) that do not require a license.

Those examples use radio chips that run at 868MHz, which is allowed in Europe AFAIK. In the US you'll need something in the +-915 MHz band. And you'll need a compatible receiver. I believe the FCC licensing is for the manufacturer, of the transmitter modules or any off-the-shelf device. Not for the end user, and probably not for a consultant that is helping the end user put the modules together.

The goTenna Mesh devices are small and self-contained and available off-the-shelf in the US for about $60 each (and presumably FCC approved). Seems like an easier solution than putting together a European-style OGN Tracker. The goTenna also transmits (short data bursts) at higher power (1 watt) and thus has a longer range than the devices that only transmit 25 mW or so (assuming similar antennas - the goTenna internal antenna is not an efficient one). In actual use (as reported by GliderLink users) air-to-air range is 20 miles or more. The goTenna can't do much on its own (no display nor controls), instead, it also contains a Bluetooth radio, and thus can pair with software running on a smartphone (such as GliderLink).

A good project for somebody would be to open up a goTenna, and connect a better antenna for use as a ground station (receiving only). This is legal because it won't be transmitting. (The software app would need to be modified to ensure that.) This has been done, but not in conjunction with GliderLink, rather as a relay station for ground-to-ground use, possibly illegally (if the antenna is "too good"). https://community.gotennamesh.com/t/project-moan-mother-of-all-nodes/275/233

All this is "thread drift" because it does not answer the original question of how to display "FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic".